Episkopos Archbishop Barbara Gray-Burke is promising to “bring it all out in the open” if the opposition People’s National Movement (PNM) continues to spread what she terms untruths about her in the news media. The 77-yer-old cleric has been roundly criticised by party officials and some supporters after she called on her congregation to vote for the incumbent People’s Partnership administration in the upcoming general election during Shouter Baptist Liberation Day celebrations in Maloney recently.
In a fiery mood, she defended that action at her Laventille home last week, quoting from the Bible to show that people must say thanks when it is warranted.
Q: Hi Archbishop, how are you keeping?
A: I am keeping good, thanking God, praising Him…
I normally do not begin my interview this way, but I know you have been under sustained verbal fire in the last week over your allegation that the PNM has done nothing for the Baptist community. On reflection, do you still maintain that position or did you have a change of heart since then?
(In the living-room of her modest home on the Old St Joseph Road, Laventille, on Thursday morning) Oh yes I maintain that, even though they say PNM gave us marriage officers’ licence. It was a tough time for us and it took us two years for them to give us that licence and credit must be given to the late Karl Hudson-Philips for assisting in that fight.
What other tangible things did the party give you all?
(Wringing her hands in her lap) Nothing. I had a home for children with 25 inmates and former Minister Joan Yuille-Williams, sometimes she would give me an invoice to get some foodstuff because we never enjoyed the privileges such as what were given to the St Mary’s Home in Tacarigua and similar places. We had a grant with the Basdeo Panday administration and when they lost the election they took it back from us.
What about those vigils the Baptists used to hold at Woodford Square in support of the PNM...nothing came out of those things?
All about (animatedly gesticulating), and that is why I said we gave our blood, sweat, tears and nothing was forthcoming. A little foodstuff she used to give us. I don’t know if it is that they are talking about, and even though I was getting the foodstuff, to add insult to injury, they came and took the roof off the building that housed the children. I had to bring the children into my private home...what a disaster that was.
Why did they rip apart the roof?
Because they wanted to build a health centre which in fact they did, but they fooled me again when they had me believe that they were giving me the old health centre building to put the children, but that never materialised. They brought police and army and mashed down the place level to the ground. (A solemn expression mirrored by visiting Baptist bishop from the US, Trinidad-born Myrtle Bristol, who sat though the interview).
I want the PNM general secretary Ashton Ford to come out and say that Barbara Gray-Burke is a liar and tell the nation what you all have done for the Shouter Baptists. I am straightening up all of that one time; they cannot cuss me anymore.
Archbishop, do you really think it is the ethical thing to implore your congregation to vote for a particular party even though some members may want to vote for the party of their choice?
(Quick response) Yes it is ethical... Let me tell you why; I spoke to my flock quoting Luke 17, which speaks of Jesus cleansing ten lepers and only one returned to give thanks and in everything you must give thanks. Jesus says bring your heart and I will give you a kingdom and that is why I would tell them don’t be like the nine ungrateful lepers. Give the lady another chance.
I take it then you don’t believe in the separation of politics and the church?
Church and State have to work together and in days gone by the prophets of old used to go to the king and say, ‘Today thou shall surely die.’ They must work together and what I want my members to do is to think, think, and see who was grateful to you…
And listen, we are not asking for something that you did not give anybody else, Mr. Raphael. You gave the Roman Catholics 170 schools, you gave the Anglicans 72 schools... what happen to the Baptists. Are we not citizens of this country, too?
I heard the PNM saying our school does not have a board. That is a lie. I took all that information to the ministry before we could benefit from the start and that is the first thing the ministry would ask you for.
Aren’t you concerned about corruption allegations being hurled at the PP administration?
My dear brother (slightly clapping her hands), I am not going to say anything about that because I do not have any concrete information. What I do know is that the PNM propaganda machinery is well greased, oiled and is busy throwing out all kinds of spurious allegations, particularly in this election period.
They hounded the NAR out of office and almost had the then prime minister killed by the insurgents and they could cuss me for saying that. They saying they are the party of governance but this is not PNM country (With evangelical fervour and hands wide apart). We are all nationals of Trinidad and Tobago. I say the lady must get another term and they get upset because of that statement. This is a free country and we are entitled to our opinion. What is wrong with that? If I had said go and vote PNM you think they would have told me don’t say that?
Archbishop, why is it so difficult for Baptists to speak with one voice?
There are different strains of the Baptist religion so there could never be one single voice. It comes like a marriage. Some churches have money, would I want to marry a man who has no money or a house? You coming to just come and hang up your hat inside my house? How could you marry someone who is bringing nothing to the table but you want to come and tell me what to do in my place?
They only sitting down and worrying and waiting for the PNM to give them something. They cannot come and sponge on me. When you marry you are marrying for security, when you love you have to love with sense...you cannot love doltish. The PNM had the opportunity to build the school, but hear what they saying: Mr Panday leave $1 million in the budget but I spent the money and build my church with it. No million. Mr Manning put his money in the bush with the (Julia) Pena woman, not by me. They say Jack Warner gave me $150,000.
Oh really, for what?
Let me clear that up. Jack Warner never gave me any money. Not Barbara Burke. If Jack Warner gave me that money let him come out and say that if he gave it to me in a cheque or in liquid cash. All that is a blatant lie. First, to begin, Jack Warner never wanted to build the walkover by the school. Anything I say I speak from my heart and it is the truth and I can tell that to anybody in their face.
When Colm Imbert was a minister in the last PNM government I asked him to build the walkover for the children’s sake and you know what he told me: That the Minister of Education do not speak to him. That was Mrs Hazel Manning and she did not ask him to build it only so that he would have built the walkover. So I have plenty more to speak about and as the days go by and they start to worry me again I will bring it all out in the open.
They want it in the open I will bring it out. I asked Mr Imbert to build the early childhood care centre for us. He told me Madam Hazel does not speak to him. He cheups and said, “What happen? She mouth too good to say she wants that built?” And it never was built until former minister Emanuel George built the walkover.